Amy Grant was my Taylor Swift. She was a girl with a guitar, who had a voice and a message that resonated with me. That girl is now sixty-five years old. I’m not far behind her. She recently “said goodbye” to her younger self by writing a eulogy to silence her inner critic. That girl is gone, but she remains. I know the feeling.

There are multiple times in our lives when we have to shift our identity. More is needed from us. Our skills deteriorate. The world changes. These shifts are incredibly difficult to make on our own. The world offers us help: Advice, solutions, strategy, optimization. These are helpful but limited. 

Most conversations focus on what a person should do. Few explore who the person is becoming. 

Most people are living lives that are too small.

Motoki Asai, founder of CAM Japan, and I get into what kind of conversations are truly transformative in my May podcasts. He says the distinction is between first-, second-, and third-generation coaching. His conclusion is that who we are is more important than what we do.

First Generation Coaching — Goals

“What do you want to achieve?” or more simply, “What do you want?” The focus is on action, habits, and outcomes, and the coach is more of an advisor, strategist, and motivator.

It is nearly impossible to get somewhere if you don’t know where you’re going. Although sometimes it is hard to imagine where you could go until you realize who you could be. 

I was coaching a dynamic young teacher who was restless with her current situation. She had achieved virtually all the success she could achieve at her level. I asked her how high she thought she might be able to rise through the school district ranks. She thought for a minute and said without much confidence, “A principal. Maybe a superintendent.” 

I asked her if I could share with her how far I thought she could rise. With her consent, I said, “I think you could be the Secretary of Education.” (A cabinet-level position in the United States Government). Something changed inside her at that moment. It wasn’t long before she was traveling the country giving motivational talks and selling books on being a great teacher.

Goals are great but often limited to our understanding of ourselves.

Second Generation Coaching — Problems & Performance

“What’s getting in the way?” The conversation shifts from achievement to obstacles, mindset, and performance. 

Every journey will have obstacles to be overcome. This requires resources and resilience. But solving problems doesn’t always create transformation.

When I first became a coach trainer, I was filling up classes early and often. And then, I didn’t. I offered a class, and not one person signed up. This was not just a problem. It was personal. I believed the empty classroom reflected my own emptiness as a coach trainer.

I called my mentor coach, Bill Copper, and told him the situation. He did not ask me a question; instead, he made a simple, transformative statement: “That happens.” Reschedule it. It sounds like advice, but it evoked a powerful awareness about my identity.

My attitude shifted. I rescheduled the class and drew in another crowd of students. Soon, Chad Hall would call me and tell me I was either their biggest competitor or their partner. He preferred their partner. So did I! I was a coach trainer.

We all need help overcoming obstacles, but sometimes the obstacle is simply ourselves.

Third Generation Coaching — Identity & Awareness

“Who are you becoming?” The conversation shifts to identity, awareness, meaning, patterns, and deeper truths. 

The breakthrough is rarely the solution itself. It’s the moment someone sees themselves clearly. Much of this transition comes from the use of language. 

During my first post-college job at IBM, I felt a call from God to go into ministry. My choices were to be a pastor or to be a missionary. I had zero desire to be a missionary, so I pursued becoming a pastor. Language itself was the limiting factor.

I’ve never felt quite comfortable with the title of pastor, and I think that is because it is not my primary identification. The description isn’t quite full enough.

I ended my list of callings at two – pastor and missionary. And yet, now I see my calling is to lead a non-profit. While I have no regrets, a good coach could have helped me articulate what was possible and transformed me at a much earlier age.

Why Transformational Conversations Matter

Every person around you is becoming what they will be for eternity. We can help with that transformation through our conversations.

Laura Stephens-Reed was my podcast guest for the month of April. As she was describing her need to communicate by writing, I suddenly had a vision of the future. I didn’t see her, because she was somewhere writing, but I saw myself reading her work… in heaven. Laura is a writer, that is her identity, and just because we transition into heaven doesn’t mean she will change who she is. She will continue to write, and her writing will remain transformational.

The deepest conversations don’t just move people forward. They wake people up.

Wake someone up today.